[TF2] Add functionality to the "Friendly Fire" Pyro Taunt.

[ALIEN31ITA]

Description

I Have spoke to one of the contributors of the new taunt from this year summer update. and he was interested in having his taunt actually work, Extinguishes teammates, pushes back enemies.

Same as the Hadouken taunt.
Here are the Values for the item schema, for setting up the timer and attack name...

"static_attrs"
{
"taunt attack name"		"TAUNTATK_PYRO_ECON_EXTINGUISHER"
"taunt attack time"		"1.76"
}

2026-07-09.21-33-01.mp4

[Borloxos]

A few things to consider:

• Make this only available when the player has a flamethrower capable of airblast (with sufficient ammo) or the Manmelter in their loadout?
• Subtract the ammo amount required for the airblast (ideally pull value from weapon stats) from the primary weapon on activation?
• Trigger airblast heal / Manmelter crit storage on successful extinguishes?
• Otherwise keep it as simply cosmetic?

[ALIEN31ITA]

A few things to consider:

• Make this only available when the player has a flamethrower capable of airblast (with sufficient ammo) or the Manmelter in their loadout?
• Subtract the ammo amount required for the airblast (ideally pull value from weapon stats) from the primary weapon on activation?
• Trigger airblast heal / Manmelter crit storage on successful extinguishes?
• Otherwise keep it as simply cosmetic?

These are cool ideas, but i am unsure about pushing this too far, i wanted to keep it simple like The Texan Trickshot, despite it killing only, and this only has 2 effects depenging on the team...

[JoriKos]

Shouldn't the Pyro be credited for the assist in the clip?

[ALIEN31ITA]

Shouldn't the Pyro be credited for the assist in the clip?

i can do that, i have pasted and edited, the Extinguish logic from the flamethrower, to follow the same rules, but i removed the stats since we aren't using a weapon...

[RTXPrimesoda]

I don't understand how this isn't viewed as pay to win mechanics. here's why:

demonstration video shows this happening in Degroot Keep which is a perfect example of how this is flawed. it's a special game mode where you can't have a flamethrower or manmelter equipped, I think what @Borloxos added is just reasonably mandatory checks to be added.

this is flawed, because you're extinguishing players without any costs from the pyro's resources there is not even a melee that can be equipped in the game that extinguishes, so it's giving essentially free upsides and all the downside is that it's locked behind a pay wall as the user has to purchase the in game taunt.

[JoriKos]

Replying to #1972 (comment)

How would giving you an extinguish in a niche game mode where everyone is always running around to be in close range, so standing still for a taunt is almost guaranteed death, be pay to win? You're not even paying for an advantage, you're paying to gain no real advantage. It's like calling the Texan Trickshot an advantage because you can use it at range on a class that otherwise has no ranged options in the game mode.

At worst, they can disallow this + the Texan Trickshot in Medieval Mode due to being anachronistic and having a function, but a very niche game mode should not stop a cool feature from being added.

[RTXPrimesoda]

How would giving you an extinguish in a niche game mode where everyone is always running around to be in close range, so standing still for a taunt is almost guaranteed death, be pay to win? You're not even paying for an advantage, you're paying to gain no real advantage. It's like calling the Texan Trickshot an advantage because you can use it at range on a class that otherwise has no ranged options in the game mode.

how's that guaranteed death? and how does this have no real advantage?
first about:

How would giving you an extinguish in a niche game mode where everyone is always running around to be in close range

as this gets added, players will learn to know during a match of lets say Degroot keep or similarly niche scenerios or game modes, etc. that this unique taunt can be coordinated to be beneficial to that team, either by team witnessing pyro have the taunt or voicechat/textchat and therefore will come nearby the pyro and wait for 1.7 seconds for them get to extinguished
let me also first state that there isn't really much inherently broken about this that it is viable to say the flamethrower itself, but the definition at where it sits makes it unfair:

• Only taunt in the game with two unique functions
• No ammo needed
• extinguishes team at and push enemy players within distance of an angle
• but locked behind 5$

again making it it's title of being Pay to win and being inappropriate for a game like tf2.
I acknowledge this further bellow:

Pyro's after burn flames and huntsman fire don't kill you quickly within few seconds unless there was sustained DPS on the one attacked from the flame thrower or the arrow is charged. In Degroot keep especially when you're healthy or a strong 200+ hp class... remember the taunt initiates it's functions fairly under 2 seconds, saving your team mate from that almost death is not something to scuff at and say is nothing. which disqualifies the title of it having "no real advantage", it stops after burn while the Texan trickshot kills an enemy and that taunt isn't unique in it's kill function as many other free taunts do that already and is very easily dodged.

and getting to basically extinguish your team mate by asking them to wait for 1.7 seconds and decreasing that delay by timing it, without a cost of your resources and this being the only unique taunt that has this extinguishing function is a benefit design wise to a taunt that only few people that have the time to spend the money can do. and also that being you don't have a flamethrower or manmelter in Degroot keep whether it's niche in game modes or is niche in base gameplay doesn't invalidate the problem quickly that's where I have a problem with and makes me want to think more about it rather than quickly extinguishing the fire of this discussion and regarding it as "not a big deal". if it already has an issue in a niche game mode that flaw can be foreshadowing of it's other problems in base game if we test and think about this more.

It's not like there is a free taunt built into the weapons of pyro that is free that lets you do this EXACT function at any moment once you regain input. making it again unique in which you have to purchase it to have this unique benefit. also just because something is niche in situations doesn't invalidate it's benefits in general.. Cause what's the point of us maintaining tf2 if we kept invalidating minor problems. That won't be very productive. Again I am not saying this weapon will change the game crazy or is viable it's honestly hard to say without much (or any in the author's PR demo) concrete testing.

Now from my approximated testing this thing isn't a big deal that's not my complaint I am not saying this is OP and you can save so many people for free. it's flawed in that it's a unique item that doesn't require a item to be equipped that extinguishes up to 256 teammates + requires no ammo + locked behind pay wall. unlike with the Texan trickshot that taunt isn't unique at all in it's function as there are other taunts that can be done without the need to pay for the taunt to execute it's similar function. like heavy's High noon melee taunt (pow taunt) for example that is free and both serve the same function, but this taunt is unique in that it adds new features that no other taunt does, free ammo extinguishing.

lets say this:
you can be empty out of ammo and your heavy tries to go to a medkit and finds nothing the heavy then sees you nearby that you the pyro can extinguish them so he will stand near you. the taunt's telegraphed animation and with the player's assumed knowledge that knows about this taunts function will know it's beneficial and worth while. and boom you just saved him from near death. without a cost and all you had to do, is buy a 5 dollar taunt that is the only unique item in this game to do this. What makes the other taunts different again is that they are to be done up close to the enemy which makes you more likely to just die. unlike with this one, I can imagine holding behind cover or out of the enemy sightline and territory, as your teammate is running back and you save them during a situation where you have nothing on yourself to extinguish them and use the taunt (niche for sure. but like what I said above beneficial otherwise to someone who bought this item, again P2W mechanics...)

we can even think about this more in loadout composition where say the pyro uses the Phlogistinator and flare gun and they can add this extinguishing taunt to their taunt slot, and rank up some extinguishes here and there again niche, but another benefit.

this is just common sense, I don't see how we need to further risk ourselves with no thoughts or concern and or consideration going into giving an addition to this very minor small gimmick that quite frankly no one asked for and is not beneficial design wise. and adds fun to something outside the base game which is just for friendly players/servers which makes up for something outside the base game to find this fun. it should be stated, that it's sometimes hard to put this stuff into words as things can be interpreted differently as different people. you can't really express game design into words, really what Im asking for is that we evaluate our thought experiments where this can make a problem through gameplay tests, and that's the only way you can 100% express game design issues and show footage we can analyze from.
I had to repeat points to make this more clear. lets please not gloss over things and think about them more.

At worst, they can disallow this + the Texan Trickshot in Medieval Mode due to being anachronistic and having a function, but a very niche game mode should not stop a cool feature from being added.

(what I said above)

[JoriKos]

how's that guaranteed death? and how does this have no real advantage?

Because when you're on fire in Medieval Mode, not only are there loads of health packs on the ground in the first place but moving from a place of combat to a place without combat already takes so long in most situations AND then having to rely on the Pyro being in that same place ready to do the taunt is such an unlikely and setup-heavy scenario that it is irrelevant. In fact, you've just taken two players out of the fight, which is actually an advantage for the enemy team. Especially if it has taken this long, you'll have already taken quite a bit of afterburn damage to the point where you'll need to heal up anyway.

If you don't have a place outside of combat, standing still for this long is just going to attract any player to rush up to you and beat you to death.

as this gets added, players will learn to know during a match of lets say Degroot keep or similarly niche scenerios or game modes, etc. [...]

It's literally only an advantage in Medieval Mode because you have no other extinguishing means. So any other niche scenario or game mode is irrelevant.

again making it it's title of being Pay to win and being inappropriate for a game like tf2.

There's still no explanation of how this actually gives an advantage. Do taunts like the High-Five! give you an advantage? You can use it to see around corners. Does a taunt like RPS give you an advantage for being able to kill a player when you have no ammo left?

Pyro's after burn flames and huntsman fire don't kill you [...]

I struggle to make any sense of this paragraph. You're just repeating that it can have an advantage, but you're only looking at the theory of it being able to extinguish an ally instead of the reality that in 99% of situations it won't even work and in 1% you're probably better off retreating to get full HP anyway. Not to mention, a Medic is already way more useful at countering the afterburn. A single arrow from the Crossbow heals the initial hit from the SVF/burning arrow and is long range, which vastly outperforms any tactic with this airblast.

also just because something is niche in situations doesn't invalidate it's benefits in general..

You are claiming it's pay to win, if it doesn't actually provide any benefit in 99.99999% of the game's situations and it's blocking a neat feature of a taunt for the sake of an imagined situation in a niche game mode where it doesn't give an advantage.

lets say this: [...]

I don't really understand why you are okay with a paid kill taunt like the Texan Trickshot because there are free weapons that can do the same, but then argue that this paid taunt extinguishing is not okay despite the fact that there are several free weapons with the same functionality. If you want to imagine a hyperniche situation that won't happen to not allow this, you can imagine a hyperniche situation that won't happen to disallow anything.

lets please not gloss over things and think about them more.

You're thinking too much about them, though. You're saying it should not be allowed because it could give an advantage in a once-in-a-lifetime situation while completely ignoring the thousands of fun moments and situations that can occur from having this taunt with this functionality.

That being said, I don't think discussing this kind of stuff is wanted on a PR so consider this my last reply on the topic of it being pay to win (it's not, you even admitted a few times yourself it's not gonna be a big deal) and make sure future comments are related to the actual contribution.

[Chickenman456]

I do think Valve should rethink this feature and genuinely consider merging this request. I doubt anyone is going to complain that it was updated after the fact.